Curse

BladeDVD · Feb 21, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsune23

How does Anet not selling a Prophecies CE edition in their online store help to line other players pockets?

I think the reference is to ebay purchases. While ANet was paid for the original sale, the resale is resulting in profits for people other than ANet.

And you people talking about how ANet could be sued for not maximizing profit are...let's just say you are perhaps going a bit overboard. This is a miniscule part of their overall business practices. Health care insurance is a significant percentage of any company's labor costs. I mean now you're getting into areas like saying they aren't charging enough for soda in the company vending machine.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

You know what? Just because you don't have the glowing hands now doesn't mean you NEED to have it. Let's face it, the whole thing is there just to show that you bought Prophecies CE, that you bought a CE of a game that just got released and nobody knew how good it would be. If everybody can have it now, do you seriously believe you would care about it?

Yes, I would. It's just a game - people get all defensive about an emote. Seriously people, there's nothing that is truly special about it. Don't give me the fact that it shows who bought the Prophecies CE, as that's irrelevant to the point. People are whining about having an emote be unique to them. In short, yes I would care about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Instead of "Wow, you must have been with the game from the very beginning (or paid a lot in an ebay auction)", it would be "yeah yeah, you paid more than me for this game, so what? I know how to spend my money kthnx".

Since one could have bought a CE a couple of months after release, it would not show that the purchaser had been with the game from the very beginning. Because clearly 2 months in is not the beginning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

And please don't come out and say something that sounds like every single non-Prophecies CE account owners "want" to buy the CE now, because not ALL of them do. And since you can't really count how many people want to do that, you can't really compare here.

Open mouth, insert foot. When I say something along those lines, we can play that arguement. But since I didn't, moot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Trust me, even though Anet is here to make money, I believe they also CARE about their customers. Care enough to know that this whole glowing hands thing isn't something they should consider making money on.

If they do care about their customers, then this idea gets as much consideration as any other - not shot down because a few people whine over an emote.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

read what i posted.

i give you some examples

Gamestop
EB games
Newegg
Best Buy

all used to have the Factions CE for sale and now none of them list it.

i just got another Factions CE from another online store i deal with and they said mine was one of the last in stock.

as for all 3 being the same user base you are wrong as everybody who has one chapter might not have the other 2 chapters

You're looking at online stores, I'm looking at brick-and-mortar stores. Like I said, some stores here still have them. But as for the same userbase, sorry but I'm right. It's 3 chapters of the same game - Guild Wars. Each chapter can be played on its own or in any combination of the 3. One game, one client. All the same userbase.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

The Divine Aura is like a special thanks to the people that bought the first CE and showed that extra support when the game was first starting out. Now people that didn't show that faith that GW would be a great game and buy the more expensive version are saying that they now want that special reward for doing nothing. They're not going to give mini Greased Lightnings to people that didn't even try roller beetle, they're not giving permanent gold cape trim to guilds that have never even participated in PvP tournaments, and they're not going to give Divine Aura to people that didn't take that chance when it was still available.

Special Thanks? If it was meant as a "Special Thanks" it would not have been bundled with the CE. Thusly it was in place before any copies were ever sold, and therefore it truly isn't a "Special Thanks". Entire paragraph mooted there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

I'm not saying Anet is a bunch of idealistic hippies that aren't concerned with profit, but they do want to maintain the integrity of the game.

Then listen to the suggestions and look into doing something about it. It's really that simple. The entire game is not going to be blown to kingdom come over an emote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

If they did start selling stuff like DA; they may as well open an item mall were you can pay real money for weapon skins, mini pets, special cape trims, access to end game areas, and buy gold directly.

Aside from buying gold, what's to say none of that hasn't been suggested or even considered? We DO have an "item mall" (called the Online Store) where theoretically these items could be sold for real money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

If GW started heading down that road, people would start quitting the game in droves; even people that don't have any CE's and are unconcerned with DA and such bonuses.

So the Online Store was a bad idea, then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

People that missed the DA have no right to be pissed at anyone but themselves for not getting it.

Everyone has a right to be pissed at anyone for any reason, that's a given fact of life. They also have a right to suggest it, and they will do just that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

People that started the game late (a while after it went live) are inherently already alienated to an extent. They don't have the first halloween mask, nor the first Wintersday one, and so on in that fashion. Giving them DA wouldn't do much to lessen that.

Oh, no? It would do a lot to lessen that because it would show them they mean as much to Anet as anyone else, not being told too bad. That's not the right way to do business. If businesses show favoritism, people will leave. That won't hurt Anet in terms of what's already been paid for, but it will hurt future sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

And once again, Anet does not ascribe to your logic of "making as much profit right now as possible is far more important than maintaining the game as a continued viable source of revenue into the future".

So Anet isnt doing anything to make money whatsoever, they are simply putting a game out and not worrying about where the server and bandwidth costs are coming from? Amazing concept!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

The reason stores still sell the Factions CE is because they haven't yet all been bought out. Same is true of Prophecies CE, I've seen posts from people, usually that live in more loosely populated areas, saying that their local game stores still have the Prophecies CE in stock at it's original price from release. But what you have to understand is that they haven't printed any more CE (Prophecies/Factions/and Nightfall).

Never said they did. I said they should, and why.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

They do one pressing (except with Factions when the factory accidentally produced fewer then they were supposed to) then they ship them out to the stores. That's it, they don't make anymore; just the one minting and then send them out. How fast the stores sell out of them cannot be controlled, but when they're gone there's no way for them to restock.

And as has been stated and proven - it's well within their rights to make more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

His final point wasn't moot. What he was saying was that the player base had grown considerably between the time of the release of Prophecies and of Factions. The number of CE's produced is relative to the projected player demand at the time of it's release. The player base having grown in the nearly two years since prophecies' release, they now make more of the newer CE's when they are released to match the expanded player demand. Should they go back and produce more Prophecies CE's to match the current player base? -No.

So Anet should be applauded for shunning the majority of their players because a select few whine over an emote? Again it's not in their interest to favor a select few players (and by few I mean more than a couple here and a couple there). People don't look favorably on that kind of thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Are they going to have a month where they redo absolutely every ingame event ever done so everyone will have a chance to get everything and we can all be equal and the same? -No.

So Wintersday 2005 and Wintersday 2006 don't count? Sure the hats were different, and there may have been one or two additional quests in 2006, but fundamentally the ingame event was the same from 2005 but with a little tacked onto it. So what game have you been playing while we've enjoyed the return of 2 ingame events from 2005?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

They did produce more of the newer CE's to match the greater demand.

And they should with the first one, in kind.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waddly Hobbins

Believe me MOST of the original CE people WILL care.

Divine Aura = Been there from beginning.

Divine Aura does NOT = I came late into Guild Wars give me the stuff I didn't qualify for.

Not playing anymore = irrelevant.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsune23

How does Anet not selling a Prophecies CE edition in their online store help to line other players pockets?

Because they are paying $300+ for it- Anet doesn't see but $70 of it (if that, since stores sell for a profit). Where do you think the rest of it goes?

Masseur · Feb 21, 2007, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Sorry, but the few people that would actually leave the game for an emote, aren't those who care much for the game to begin with. Yeah, people might whine about it being sold, but they'd still play, just like they whine about skill changes and other things they don't like and then continue playing.

Cacheelma · Feb 21, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Skill changes are for the better of the game AS A WHOLE, not something good for SOME people and bad for some people like this idea.

I personally find this whole arguement to be as pointless as you can imagine. I guess I'll just stick with what Gaile said about this issue instead. For some of you, feel free to suggest whatever idea you want.

I trust Anet from the beginning that they know what's good for the game anyway. So, some bad idea won't really affect me until it gets implemented.

Laenavesse · Feb 21, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsune23

They can't unlink an already applied key, I think that's been made pretty apparent, and support even states that. The best you could do at this point would be to add a Prophecies CE key and accept the monetary loss of the GOTY key.

lol i'll exclude you from my vicious wrath because you probably didn't read my previous posts about it XD

it was in reference to a post i made a while back asking them if it was possible through a support ticket i had sent a whiiilleee ago. Before i even knew this thread existed. So i know i can't ^^

Edit:

and that super long post kinna explained the reason why i even put that list there. It was a what if scenario again in response to nbajammer. Maybe it's a sign I should stop writing super long posts even though I write them so I make sure that what i am saying is being put across _._;; Bleh.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

Skill changes are for the better of the game AS A WHOLE, not something good for SOME people and bad for some people like this idea.

Last time I checked, skill changes were no different. There's an entire subforum to reflect that. People whine about this change killing PvE or that one ruining PvP...in theory yes they should be for the better of the game, but it's debatable whether it really (ever) is. And that is best left for a different thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I personally find this whole arguement to be as pointless as you can imagine. I guess I'll just stick with what Gaile said about this issue instead. For some of you, feel free to suggest whatever idea you want.

It's pretty apparent that it's not going to change anyone's mind. Valid points were made from both sides. We will all simply need to agree to disagree on this one, and reflect that for once we have entire thread on it based purely on discussion and not on flaming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I trust Anet from the beginning that they know what's good for the game anyway. So, some bad idea won't really affect me until it gets implemented.

I trust Anet as well, however its a stretch to suggest they know what's good for the game considering they ask us to test skill changes and whatnot (if they did, they wouldnt ask us to test anything or to suggest things). They may have ideas on what is good, but things are better left open to suggestion. That's what makes Anet all the better.

Knightsaber Sith · Feb 21, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Yes, I would. It's just a game - people get all defensive about an emote. Seriously people, there's nothing that is truly special about it. Don't give me the fact that it shows who bought the Prophecies CE, as that's irrelevant to the point. People are whining about having an emote be unique to them. In short, yes I would care about it.

You say there's nothing truly special about it, yet this has to be the second or third thread on this topic we've locked horns in. Obviously, if you want it that bad, there is something special about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Since one could have bought a CE a couple of months after release, it would not show that the purchaser had been with the game from the very beginning. Because clearly 2 months in is not the beginning.

As opposed to say, 3 years after release, it still shows you joined early on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

If they do care about their customers, then this idea gets as much consideration as any other - not shot down because a few people whine over an emote.

This "idea" wasn't shot down because a few people "whined" about it; it was shot down because Anet decided the DA would be exclusive to the Prophecies CE and CE's would only be available in limited quantities a while before the game went live. Again, you act like we're obsessed to defend DA so much but you must be at least equally so if not more to be doing the same thing for the other side. We're not whining, we're just trying to explain to you guys why Anet has made this policy and why they're so strict about it since you don't seem to understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

You're looking at online stores, I'm looking at brick-and-mortar stores. Like I said, some stores here still have them. But as for the same userbase, sorry but I'm right. It's 3 chapters of the same game - Guild Wars. Each chapter can be played on its own or in any combination of the 3. One game, one client. All the same userbase.

True, it is essentially the same user base but what you have to take into consideration is the size of the user base at the time of release of each campaign respectively. Naturally, it grows as more time passes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Special Thanks? If it was meant as a "Special Thanks" it would not have been bundled with the CE. Thusly it was in place before any copies were ever sold, and therefore it truly isn't a "Special Thanks". Entire paragraph mooted there.

This statement doesn't even make sense. Why can't a special thanks be bundled with a CE? The fact that they had planned their thanks ahead of time somehow negates it's purpose? I think not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Then listen to the suggestions and look into doing something about it. It's really that simple. The entire game is not going to be blown to kingdom come over an emote.

Actually it pretty much would. If they start selling things like DA, then naturally it will open the door for people to demand them to start selling other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Aside from buying gold, what's to say none of that hasn't been suggested or even considered? We DO have an "item mall" (called the Online Store) where theoretically these items could be sold for real money.

They have indeed been suggested, but not considered. If you recall, Anet made a point to stress that they would not be selling ingame things (like items,skins, etc..) in the ingame store right around when it launched. It's not an item mall, it could be turned into one, but it isn't at the moment. You have to remember, GW wasn't launched as the kind of game with an item mall where you can buy anything you want. People have bought the game and put a lot of hard work into it to earn the things they have. If they switched formats now and made all those things they earned available at the click of the mouse, the game wouldn't survive for much longer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

So the Online Store was a bad idea, then?

No. The way Anet had intended the ingame store to function, and the way it does function is fine. It sells character slots and campaigns, but no actual ingame stuff. That's just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Everyone has a right to be pissed at anyone for any reason, that's a given fact of life. They also have a right to suggest it, and they will do just that.

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

So Anet isnt doing anything to make money whatsoever, they are simply putting a game out and not worrying about where the server and bandwidth costs are coming from? Amazing concept!

That's not what I said at all. What I said was that they're more concerned with keep their cash cow alive and the franchise going so that it's still a viable asset years down the line for them to continually collect profits from. If they do what you suggest, they company might get a huge spike of profits at that very moment but then the whole franchise would die and they'd be out of business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Oh, no? It would do a lot to lessen that because it would show them they mean as much to Anet as anyone else, not being told too bad. That's not the right way to do business. If businesses show favoritism, people will leave. That won't hurt Anet in terms of what's already been paid for, but it will hurt future sales.

That too would be favoritism, if they made DA available to everyone I'm sure there's something that someone that already had DA had missed and would have wanted. The only way not to play favoritism would be for everyone to have the exact same stuff. That means no high-end armor skins poor players can't afford, no special cape trims that PvE guilds can't get, no special masks from limited events. To stop favoritism, they couldn't just make DA available again and stop there; it's all or nothing. If they did all and gave everyone the exact same stuff it would be boring, people would be mad everyone got what they had to earn without working for it, and the game would fail. That's why it must stay the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

And as has been stated and proven - it's well within their rights to make more.

Of course it's in their right to make more, but it's also their policy not to. The only time they did a second run was when the first one didn't produce as many as intended. They're not going to print more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

So Anet should be applauded for shunning the majority of their players because a select few whine over an emote? Again it's not in their interest to favor a select few players (and by few I mean more than a couple here and a couple there). People don't look favorably on that kind of thing.

Once again I'll try to make this clear, Anet did not reject this idea because of anything any of the player base said, they did so because the idea went against the policies they set out for themselves before the game even went on sale. It is in their interest to keep player confidence and stick with what they say they're going to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

So Wintersday 2005 and Wintersday 2006 don't count? Sure the hats were different, and there may have been one or two additional quests in 2006, but fundamentally the ingame event was the same from 2005 but with a little tacked onto it. So what game have you been playing while we've enjoyed the return of 2 ingame events from 2005?

No, they don't count. Someone that wants the exact hat from '05 will never be able to get it. Why should the DA be any different?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

And they should with the first one, in kind.

That doesn't make any sense. It's already over. They met the demand just fine. They release a certain amount when it's first released and that's it. It's not like they sold out world wide in less than a week and it was impossible to get your hands on one. The supply matched the demand quite aptly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Not playing anymore = irrelevant.

But they are still playing so they obviously are relevant. Frankly, people that bought the standard edition would be far more likely to stop playing than someone that bought the CE.

nbajammer, I understand that you're very enthused about this topic but most of your arguments just focus in on the technicality of how people word their statements and fail to comment on the actual point of the argument entirely. You're short responses don't provide any actually counter point, you just try to twist our words against us. If you're going to make an argument, you have to explain it and actually make a point other than "I want DA and you need to give it to me now!".
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masseur

Sorry, but the few people that would actually leave the game for an emote, aren't those who care much for the game to begin with. Yeah, people might whine about it being sold, but they'd still play, just like they whine about skill changes and other things they don't like and then continue playing.

As I've been trying to explain to our other friend; people wouldn't leave the game simply for offering the purchase of an emote but rather for the door this action would open. If they can sell DA, then they can sell FOW armor, then they can sell crystalline swords, then they can sell gold directly. If they can sell DA, there's no reason they can't sell everything. It's all or nothing and they know that. They understand if they allowed it, they'd be bankrupt before long.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Since you don't want to let the thread go unlike everyone else...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

You say there's nothing truly special about it, yet this has to be the second or third thread on this topic we've locked horns in. Obviously, if you want it that bad, there is something special about it.

There's nothing wrong with wanting something. It's the people who make it their life's goal objecting it that believe it's worth something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

As opposed to say, 3 years after release, it still shows you joined early on.

Which means what? As someone said, most who got it simply don't play. That makes it special how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

This "idea" wasn't shot down because a few people "whined" about it; it was shot down because Anet decided the DA would be exclusive to the Prophecies CE and CE's would only be available in limited quantities a while before the game went live. Again, you act like we're obsessed to defend DA so much but you must be at least equally so if not more to be doing the same thing for the other side. We're not whining, we're just trying to explain to you guys why Anet has made this policy and why they're so strict about it since you don't seem to understand.

I'm not complaining about people defending the DA so much. I'm saying that people act like the world will end if in fact things change, and that's because that's how people are behaving towards the mere suggestion. Anet has made many a policy, and many a policy has changed due to player requests. That's why we have things like purchaseable slots or material storage. They had a policy against it but players requested such features and they got added. Nothing different here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

True, it is essentially the same user base but what you have to take into consideration is the size of the user base at the time of release of each campaign respectively. Naturally, it grows as more time passes.

And so does the demand for past items. Times change, it's time to adapt to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

This statement doesn't even make sense. Why can't a special thanks be bundled with a CE? The fact that they had planned their thanks ahead of time somehow negates it's purpose? I think not.

Would you thank someone ahead of time? Furthermore, are the Factions and Nightfall CEs containing their minis and backup dancers and whatnot also "Special Thanks" for trying something new? No. Why, you ask? Because of the PvE and PvP preview weekends. Because of the first game. Prophecies also had beta weekends. Therefore, most people knew what they were getting into from that. Sure, it'd be bigger and to some extent different (retail vs beta). But they had enough of an idea to go out and buy it. They weren't making a blind purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Actually it pretty much would. If they start selling things like DA, then naturally it will open the door for people to demand them to start selling other things.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you will or would. We don't control what the store sells, we can only suggest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

They have indeed been suggested, but not considered. If you recall, Anet made a point to stress that they would not be selling ingame things (like items,skins, etc..) in the ingame store right around when it launched. It's not an item mall, it could be turned into one, but it isn't at the moment. You have to remember, GW wasn't launched as the kind of game with an item mall where you can buy anything you want. People have bought the game and put a lot of hard work into it to earn the things they have. If they switched formats now and made all those things they earned available at the click of the mouse, the game wouldn't survive for much longer.

So let's go ahead and remove the GOTY upgrade, the extra character slots, etc. Because they are in-game things and as you say they wouldn't be doing it. If they wanted to only sell out-of-game item, we'd see things like mugs, mousepads, t-shirts - stuff like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

No. The way Anet had intended the ingame store to function, and the way it does function is fine. It sells character slots and campaigns, but no actual ingame stuff. That's just fine.

Except that upgrades and character slots are in-game items. By your standards they should be removed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

That's not what I said at all. What I said was that they're more concerned with keep their cash cow alive and the franchise going so that it's still a viable asset years down the line for them to continually collect profits from. If they do what you suggest, they company might get a huge spike of profits at that very moment but then the whole franchise would die and they'd be out of business.

And making an emote available as a seperate item, for a modest price, is going to utterly kill this game and make someone want to quit? I don't remember who said it, so I cant give credit to them, but they said anyone who would quit over something like this truly doesn't care about the game and they are absolutely right. It's about the extra revenue brought in from these sales, plus the fact people will see that Anet strives to make possible the things people want so they will continue to support that company. It's about the money, not the product. That can only help, not hurt, the company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

That too would be favoritism, if they made DA available to everyone I'm sure there's something that someone that already had DA had missed and would have wanted. The only way not to play favoritism would be for everyone to have the exact same stuff. That means no high-end armor skins poor players can't afford, no special cape trims that PvE guilds can't get, no special masks from limited events. To stop favoritism, they couldn't just make DA available again and stop there; it's all or nothing. If they did all and gave everyone the exact same stuff it would be boring, people would be mad everyone got what they had to earn without working for it, and the game would fail. That's why it must stay the way it is.

That would not be favoritism, for the very reason you state - that everyone would have it. Because of the wider availability of the Factions and NF CEs, the odds of anyone fussing over some other limited item is much lower. No one will have a problem over things like high-end armor skins, cape trims, etc. Because everyone CAN get them. Does everyone have the money or guild members or even playing skill? No. But the OPPORTUNITY is still there. Thusly, there's no problem there at all and the game would not fail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Of course it's in their right to make more, but it's also their policy not to. The only time they did a second run was when the first one didn't produce as many as intended. They're not going to print more.

And their policies and stances have changed before, and could very well do so now (with regards to this or anything else for that matter). Will they? Only time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Once again I'll try to make this clear, Anet did not reject this idea because of anything any of the player base said, they did so because the idea went against the policies they set out for themselves before the game even went on sale. It is in their interest to keep player confidence and stick with what they say they're going to do.

Player confidence is gained and shown by also giving fair considerations to player suggestions when said suggestions are asked for. Show me where they said, way back then, that this will never, ever be made available again - ever. They also said they would be looking into various in-game features that, for the most part, haven't surfaced. The few that did, came well after they were expected to. While Anet certainly aren't liars, the question of sticking with what they say has its doubts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

No, they don't count. Someone that wants the exact hat from '05 will never be able to get it. Why should the DA be any different?

Because I can't walk into Gamestop and say that I want to buy the '05 hat. But I could, back in the day, walk into Gamestop and buy a Prophecies CE. That's why the DA is different. The events repeat, but the hats are different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

That doesn't make any sense. It's already over. They met the demand just fine. They release a certain amount when it's first released and that's it. It's not like they sold out world wide in less than a week and it was impossible to get your hands on one. The supply matched the demand quite aptly.

The demand has increased. It'd be right for them to increase the supply, even within a limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

But they are still playing so they obviously are relevant. Frankly, people that bought the standard edition would be far more likely to stop playing than someone that bought the CE.

Are they? How many people have you seen playing lately not only having the DA but also using it? And why would anyone who bought the standard edition quit over this if they were able to go to the store and buy it themselves? They wouldn't. The CE folks on the other hand...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

nbajammer, I understand that you're very enthused about this topic but most of your arguments just focus in on the technicality of how people word their statements and fail to comment on the actual point of the argument entirely. You're short responses don't provide any actually counter point, you just try to twist our words against us. If you're going to make an argument, you have to explain it and actually make a point other than "I want DA and you need to give it to me now!".

I've made many points to the arguement, but you are too high on defending the DA to take a step back and actually read what I've said, unlike other people. They still didn't agree with me, but they also read what I had to say and their rebuttals reflected that. I suggest you do the same, because I haven't said the quote you are attributing to me ("I want DA and you need to give it to me now!") or anything remotely close to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

As I've been trying to explain to our other friend; people wouldn't leave the game simply for offering the purchase of an emote but rather for the door this action would open. If they can sell DA, then they can sell FOW armor, then they can sell crystalline swords, then they can sell gold directly. If they can sell DA, there's no reason they can't sell everything. It's all or nothing and they know that. They understand if they allowed it, they'd be bankrupt before long.

You really haven't read this thread, have you? It's been said a few times in here that they would in fact leave because of its availability. Do us all a favor, let this thread come to an end and simply agree to disagree. It's apparent everyone else has.

Cacheelma · Feb 21, 2007, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Which means what? As someone said, most who got it simply don't play. That makes it special how?

And again, you try to state something you don't even know for a fact. You can say "Not all" which could be true, but don't try "Most" when there's nothing to support it. Why? Because you could still see a lot of people in the game with DA, no matter where you go across 3 games. If in fact "most" of those who bought Prophecies CE don't play GW anymore, you won't see any of them, or maybe a lot less.

Aramaki · Feb 21, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Even if CE reprints again, as long as Anet doesn't add 2 more character slots for those who have the normal edition already, IMO its a waste of $$ and I'll never buy it. I do agree that DA should never be on the Online Store as it cheapens the CE.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

If in fact "most" of those who bought Prophecies CE don't play GW anymore, you won't see any of them, or maybe a lot less.

A lot less...which is exactly the case, and illustrates my usage perfectly. In fact, I've only seen 1 person - a guildie, no less. Kinda says something, doesn't it?

Cacheelma · Feb 21, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

A lot less...which is exactly the case, and illustrates my usage perfectly. In fact, I've only seen 1 person - a guildie, no less. Kinda says something, doesn't it?

No. Because I saw a lot of people across the 3 games still use it. But both of our observation can't really prove anything, although I have to say the fact that you only observe your 1 guildie makes your observation a bit......biased.

And you said a lot "less", less than when? Have you been here from the very beginning? Oh you don't need to tell me that if you have because....I will have to say you skipped the CE yourself and this whole thread is just your personal dilemma.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

No. Because I saw a lot of people across the 3 games still use it. But both of our observation can't really prove anything, although I have to say the fact that you only observe your 1 guildie makes your observation a bit......biased.

And you said a lot "less", less than when? Have you been here from the very beginning? Oh you don't need to tell me that if you have because....I will have to say you skipped the CE yourself and this whole thread is just your personal dilemma.

Perhaps you could stand to do some reading. Notably, here or to be more specific, read this part:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbajammer

Surely they could do that as my other account is only valuable enough to me for 2 keys - Proph pre-order and Proph CE.

As you can see, I didn't skip the CE. And I've played since the game was in beta. So your insults have no bearing, not to mention their inappropriateness. I play this game considerably. I get around to places and see a TON of people. And out of all those people, I only see 1 person. That's not biased, even if he is my guildie. The last time I saw any significant number of people with the DA goes back to well before Factions was released.

Laenavesse · Feb 21, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

*wonders when this craziness will end*

I've seen tons of people use DA on all 3 campaigns. Now I can't say they might have been one person with different characters, though seeing like 5 in one spot kinna deters from that notion.

and I agree with Cacheelma, what you said does NOT say anything. It just says you need to get out more or that people might not be spam emoting their DA all the time or maybe even pay more attention.

You don't have eyes to look everywhere so you can't verify every single use of DA unless you somehow set up a spy network which would span MILLIONS.

Just face it, DA will stay with CE, it won't be made public through online purchase, if you want it so bad just buy it online for $100 and lets be done with this -_-;; No amount of pestering will change that. You can see for yourself that more people OPPOSE the idea of public purchase rather than approve. Of course this is only from this thread, but if you were to use this as a sample size, it seems the majority oppose. Maybe you should make some sort of poll to see for yourself. Of course that can be rigged and not really be trustworthy but it's something rather than relying on your own two eyes to see.

nbajammer · Feb 21, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laenavesse

*wonders when this craziness will end*

When people agree to disagree and stop blasting me for my suggeston, reasons, and opinion. The sooner that happens, the sooner it ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laenavesse

I've seen tons of people use DA on all 3 campaigns. Now I can't say they might have been one person with different characters, though seeing like 5 in one spot kinna deters from that notion.

and I agree with Cacheelma, what you said does NOT say anything. It just says you need to get out more or that people might not be spam emoting their DA all the time or maybe even pay more attention.

He asked what I saw, and I gave him an answer. If he doesn't like my answer, or doesn't want to hear it, then he shouldn't have asked. Plain and simple. If so few people are using it, it can't be this "uber special" item everyone says and a larger number of them would go mostly unnoticed. At least you see planty of disco balls. Lastly, whether I need to get out more or not is not the sort of comment I appreciate, nor does it have any relevance to the topic of discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laenavesse

You don't have eyes to look everywhere so you can't verify every single use of DA unless you somehow set up a spy network which would span MILLIONS.

He asked for my observation, and I gave it to him. Where the idea of MILLIONS came into play, I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laenavesse

Just face it, DA will stay with CE, it won't be made public through online purchase, if you want it so bad just buy it online for $100 and lets be done with this -_-;; No amount of pestering will change that. You can see for yourself that more people OPPOSE the idea of public purchase rather than approve. Of course this is only from this thread, but if you were to use this as a sample size, it seems the majority oppose. Maybe you should make some sort of poll to see for yourself. Of course that can be rigged and not really be trustworthy but it's something rather than relying on your own two eyes to see.

You can't say that it won't be made public through online purchase unless you can see the future, which I know you can't. I was done with this a few posts back, but people choose to continue to bash my opinion and suggestion, rather than agreeing to disagree and leaving it be.

If there are more people OPPOSING the idea, then explain to me how it gets suggested at virtually every Gaile chat, as stated by Knightsaber Sith back on page 1 or 2. Apparently, then, this is not the case. I don't need to make a poll, because this is a SUGGESTION, not a "What is your opinion?". Two entirely different things. And since you admit that your stats involve just this thread alone, then you should know it has no relevance at all so why bother posting that?

Laenavesse · Feb 21, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Okay, you gotta be able to tell sarcasm apart from something meant literally...but I guess it's hard to tell that in a forum xD;;

When I said that you needed to get out more, I was being sarcastic in a sense. I wasn't saying just stayed cooped up somewhere isolated from anyone. I was in a bit of a bad mood so bleh.

Anyway, no I can't tell the future, but I CAN say what I believe. Basically, though it did sound as if it was a fact, what I said was what I believed. And it just makes more sense to me.

Sure people will bring it up. In fact, you only notice the people who bring it up. You won't see people say "I don't want it to happen D:" There's no point to it. They're satisfied and don't have a problem. Why would they bring it up then? So it's the people who have issues that you see more and then think there are more.

Whether or not a person uses the emote is his/her own prefence. I only use the dancenew command on my CE chars because I just think it's cool. People probably used it a lot too when they first used it. But that doesn't mean they will always. Maybe the novelty wore off. Maybe they have no reason to just stand in the middle of the town dancing with their hands a glow when they could be out playing the game.

It's a novelty thing.

The whole thing about MILLIONS was in reference as to how many people there are playing GW (well I can only guess millions and that's including international players). So I was saying if you made a spy network it would have to have a lot of people. MILLIONS is just a word to kinna give the idea it would be a big thing.

Sorry if I sounded offensive about the whole "get out more" but I wasn't trying to. So I apologize (no sarcasm there ^^).

Anyway, arguments with this much heat on each side will tend to last forever with no resolve unless the party in question actually did something to alter it.

Which they won't for a while.

Sooo I guess this will be around until a) ANET actually does or say something about this, b) Mods close this thread, c) people give up and just stop posting.

I don't think C is going to happen any time soon. Don't know about a or be either.

So, to rephrase my last paragraph a bit, I firmly believe that DA won't be made public through online purchase. From what I think, from my own logic, and from whatever else that I can't think of right now since I'm tired and want to sleep, it won't happen. It just doesn't make sense.

If looked at a business point of view, yeah they'd get some extra cash.

But they'd get more cash if they just made more CE editions, though still a limited amount.

Cost of production might come into play, and though DA may seem to be cheaper, it wouldn't in the long run.

If they made the special emotes available for online purchase withing having to get the CE a chunk of CE sales will drop. They wouldn't be able to stop with DA, they'd have to do with the other stuff.

People buy the CE for different reasons. Some for the mini pet. Some for the physical extra goodies. Some for the emote. Some for the sake of just having CE and saying you have it.

Either way, CE would be cheapened in that regard (referring back to one of your older posts), less people would buy it. I'll tell you my reasons for buying CE:

The mini pet and the emote.

So if I could get those for purchase online well...I'll just get the normal edition instead and just buy online. Mini pet might be expensive, but I might not have wanted it anyway. Haven't sold mine though.

I know I'm not the only one. I know it's not the only reason. But loss of sales nonetheless.

And then people who had the CE will be in an outrage because something that was theirs was lost. There was no point in buying the CE if they could get the stuff online.

So there's just more trouble than it's worth.

That's why, in short, I think it won't happen.

There are probably more complications in regard to the whole business deal but I'll deal with them as they come. So just know I am aware that there are but I just don't feel like trying to sort it out and posting it right now.

No, I cannot dictate what will happen. Maybe I'll try and draw a supply and demand curve...